Видео

LOL! Something like that.

Many thanks!

The roll from rail to rail is a slight tilt of the board and body from right to left and left to right.

Stoked you enjoyed it! And thanks for the feedback.

There's definitely to that point. But I do know CSUSM ran a study on three different boards with the same volume, but the volume distributed differently - one with most in the tail, one with most in the middle of the board, and one with most in the nose. The results were not what they/we expected. There was no statistically significant difference in the surfers' oxygen uptake. Meaning, it didn't matter where the volume was placed. That being said, if the difference was more substantial, meaning we spread it over the length, then yes, we should see a difference. The main takeaway from our experiment was that length clearly makes a difference, and the key reason why is that length reduces three forms of drag - wave drag, frontal drag, and form drag. Whereas changing volume only impacts just form drag. Wave and frontal drag increase 8x when speed is doubled while form drag only increases 4x when speed is doubled. So makes sense why reducing frontal and wave drag make such a huge difference.

We'll add it into our list of questions!! Thanks!

LOL! Yeah, that and poor technique. Totally.

Good questions. I love Clayton's oreo bisquit technique and he and I have spoken at great lengths about wave catching. Generally, you have the essence of it - you need to be at the exact perfect spot/location - he calls it the bus stop. But there are instances where we aren't in the right spot. So in those scenarios, should we just skip the wave? Or is there something else we can do to catch the wave? In my Level 2 course, we discuss the different scenarios and there is one umbrella concept that includes the Oreo scenario vs other scenarios. A good topic for a podcast or blog so I'll add it to the list. Thanks for suggesting.

Good question. With #1 though, width of board vs surfer anatomy DOES make a difference in regards to effectiveness of technique and power generated. A surfer can't engage the power zone and use their power muscles on a board that is too wide for them. This happens quite often in the beginner space. But there are more ways to add volume than width. 2. We haven't measured how the other factors affect paddling efficiency yet, nor have the universities. It's on our list for sure. But wanted to knock out the most basic elements like volume and length first.

So glad this helped illuminate the issue. Hope the elbow is feeling better now.

It looks sketchy for sure! And the way in which it breaks makes sense that it goes from super deep to super shallow.

In theory I'm right there with you, but I haven't seen any studies proving that. Maybe that'll be the next experiment we do.

Can't say that yet. Our ocean part of this experiment didn't get enough data. Anecdotally, Zouhair and I caught more waves on the shortboard than the longboard which is not what one might expect. However, the conditions were short period peaky waves, where we could sit inside easier and duck dive while on the longer board, we had to sit out the back and wait for the better ones. So wasn't really a good comparison.

Right indeed. Though, we still haven't proven this yet, nor has any university. The best space for this would be in a wavepool and I attempt to get some thoughts going in another podcast episode I did - ruclips.net/video/3wrRSd9Im_g/видео.html But it's hardly scientific. Just recorded it to get the minds thinking of how we could test this.

Correct, but a longer board doesn't need as much speed to get to planing as a shortboard and therefore can "catch" the wave with a less steep development of the wave (i.e. earlier). What's interesting is when a surfer moves from displacement to planing given where they are in the development of the wave and the board they are riding. Check this episode out for a visual of what I'm trying to explain. ruclips.net/video/3wrRSd9Im_g/видео.html Hardly scientific, but gets the mind thinking about how we might test this.

You got it. Hope they help!

Good points. When it comes to catching waves, it's actually a bit more about how a vessel moves from displacement to planing given where it is during the development of the wave. I wish we had better data on this - our experiment didn't get enough statistically significant data to draw any conclusions. The best way would be to test it in a pool. In this episode I dive a bit more into the catching of waves: ruclips.net/video/3wrRSd9Im_g/видео.html

Agreed. I hate to preach, but paddling technique bridges that gap - being able to paddle any board efficiently with low energy use so you can ride smaller boards when you want to. Or a button on the board that converts a longboard into a shortboard during steep sections and then back into a longboard for fat slow sections! That would be sick.

Yeah, so back arch is a common debatable topic. But I have hard evidence showing an average of 21-23% increase in efficiency when a surfer paddles with a neutral back arch. It really depends on a surfer's mobility limits in their spine. But the point I try and make is that you can adjust different techniques based on your own personal mobility/endurance limitations to optimize paddling. This particular technique has to do with horizontal balance control, and back arch (head height) is only 1 of 4 techniques that can control that factor.

I love this thought and something we need to test in a standard environment like a pool where we might be more accurate in getting repetitive data. To your point though, a pool wave might only have a handful of profiles and within each profile different sections of the wave along the distance it travels. I completely agree this analysis is much too linear. It was more meant to get comments like this to rattle around in your minds and think of how we might actually test wave catching. Thanks so much!

Wonderful point and you noted the differences in surf spots. The power behind waves does play a role in the board volume you are able to surf as well. As you know, given the same size wave, but with one being 2x the power band than another (e.g. a pipeline wave vs a trestles wave), a surfer can surf lower volume boards with the more powerful band. The way the wave hits an underwater feature like a sandbar or reef can also impact the power the surfer is able to tap into on different kinds of boards. A steeply curved wave, even at 2ft, a small, thin, low volume shortboard can generate speed on. But a mushy, soft, weak 2ft wave would be difficult to generate speed on the same board. My point is to begin to look at the waves you are surfing and determining what board to take based on the way the wave is breaking, rather than which board would be easier to paddle. Paddling technique can be learned so you can paddle any board as effectively and efficiently as the design allows. And it's so nice to have the right board on the right wave, as I'm sure you know. Volume plays a huge role there as higher volume (or designs that plane better in flat spots) holds speed through weak, flat spots on a wave. You wouldn't want that same board design in throaty Kirra or Snapper.

Great suggestion. I'll look into it. When it comes to local surf spots, the bathymetry close to shore and just offshore will affect how a swell will refract into or away from the coastlines so that is also something we can play with and discuss. Will add this to the topic list. Thanks!

Thanks for the question. Generally, anything under 7', a surfer would use the same paddling technique stroke, all dependent on their weight to volume ratio and how much of their body sits in the water vs above the water. So from a paddling point of view, the extra length will help according to our experiment. However, I ask that you think about how you would want to surf the waves you are surfing and choose a surfboard that reflects that instead of how it paddles. With good technique, a surfer can paddle any board optimally given the design features of the board. But once they are up and surfing, a surfer would want more volume if the wave has a lot of flat spots, or less volume if the wave is fast and curved ("volume" can be interchanged with "design features" like narrower, or thinner, etc). If you go longer and keep the same volume, yes, your paddling in general will improve, but has the technique changed at all? That is important to consider. Optimize your technique on any surfboard. Then you get the power to choose a board based on the wave shape and conditions rather than the paddle out/wave catching attributes.

Yes, it certainly plays a role because the weight to volume ratio and weight distribution across the board all impact drag amounts.

Correct. Surface area is important as it increases what is called Drag Propulsion. But it's not the best technique. Vessels gain more in reducing drag than increasing propulsion. That much has been proven for over 100 years of ship building. And as surfers, we're just mini-vessels. Once drag reduction has been optimized, then the effectiveness of the propulsion comes next. Within this is drag propulsion (surface area) and lift propulsion.

Stoked for the kind words. Glad the knowledge helps out!

Appreciate the feedback!

LOL! Yes, definitely keep it quiet.

Oh man, please do. I don't mind being wrong, and I love to discuss how an actual experiment might be set up. So many variables but I'm sure people smarter than me can figure it out.

Lol! Okay. Note taken. Thanks for the feedback. I’ll try, but a zebra can’t change his stripes. That’s just how my brain thinks. Cheers.

Good question. And one I cover in my Level 2 course. Getting out can add to your energy use or you can save a lot. In terms of board designs, typically a surfer will expend more energy on getting through waves on a bigger board paddling out, and less energy paddling in flatwater on a bigger board.

Love the idea of using a body to test what this study suggests with timing. The data suggests a few things, and thank you for asking. The number one way to save energy is to dive before the lip makes impact. Next, with waves of this shape and power, about a half second after impact (for the bounce), which is a shallow duck dive. The next timing would be a deep duck dive, at those times when the data is showing acceleration downward then out to sea - keep in mind this is acceleration so slightly before these moments the surfer would want to be positioned underwater. The downward force will push the surfer deeper and the outward force out to sea. Also keep in mind the surfer will need to already be submerged to take advantage of this timing. They should feel the pressure on their backs when underwater. Lastly, know that each wave will roll differently. This data is the first to show a pattern which aligns with anecdotal evidence from my decades of experience duck diving successfully. I think that’s why I got so excited!

Thanks. Maybe it’s your internet speed. I checked on my side and while it’s not crystal clear, it’s not blurry.

RUclips allows you to increase the resolution. But it’s at the expense of Internet speed.

LOL!

I cover the cork technique in my Level 2 course. I’ll see what I can do - maybe it’ll be a blog post instead of a podcast episode. Thanks for the suggestion

I’m the same way. More mass to move around. That same mass helps with momentum but uses more energy to get started. Thanks for the comment!

Agreed. He’s a legend.